[Zending]

I wrote this for school, the teacher was a hardcore feminist. I thought it was hilarious, but I'm pretty sure she'll fail me on it. I believe every word I wrote in it though, especially since I broke up with my girlfriend and I'm a hardcore cynic when it comes to trusting girls anymore. Enjoy.




Chivalry is dying. It’s not dead; there is still a conservative minority of the male population who follow a loose code of Chivalry. However, my recent experiences have left me painfully clinging to a dying virtue. Before I get into this brief rant, let us first define the word Chivalry. Chivalry, as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary means:

The qualities idealized by knighthood, such as bravery, courtesy, honor, and gallantry toward women.

Ooh, gallantry, that’s a big word! Basically, it means giving women “courtly” attention. I’m not going to allow myself to go into a technical definition war. So one must ask him or herself the question “what exactly qualifies as courtly behavior?” I define courtly behavior as a man treating a woman with an old fashioned/conservative form of respect. Examples of this include, but are not limited to the following:

· Paying for dates (meals, movies, equestriating, skydiving)
· Holding and opening doors/pulling out and pushing in chairs (ever watched Titanic?)
· Surprising the woman with random, and thoughtful gifts and/or random acts of attention (phone calls out of the blue).
· Approaching women with a charming (not smooth-talking) attitude (and yes, there is a difference).
· Impressing the woman with your “masculine” skills.

The list could go on for quite some time, but we’ll just work with those specific examples. Paying for dates seems simple enough, right? I know I’ve done my fair share of forking out the cash for a bill. I can’t argue with this one, as it is still relatively consistent in today’s society. Sure, every now and then the woman will pay for a dinner date, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We’re just going to move on.

Holding and opening doors, where to start. Would you believe me if I said I’ve actually heard a woman complain about men opening car doors for them? Well it’s true. I have, and it wasn’t just one girl. It was several. They said they found a man opening and closing a car door for them degrading and annoying and it took away their sense of independence. INDEPEDENCE! We’re getting to that. Just wait.

Surprising the woman with random, and thoughtful gifts. Most women did, do, and always will appreciate this. I can’t really beef on it. However, random acts of attention such as phone calls out of the blue. Now, this is one of those times where men just can’t win. If you don’t call the girl enough, she’ll complain. If you randomly call her, and she’s in the middle of something, she’ll complain. It’s a lose-lose situation. Don’t fight it, you can’t call a woman enough, and you also call her too much at the same time. I think it’s an independence thing. Who knows?

Approaching women. I’m trying to figure out a way to explain this in a nutshell. So instead of going technical with it, I’m just going to give an example.

Scenario 1.

The setting is a college campus; the library, perhaps. Subject A, and attractive male, approaches an attractive female, subject B.

A: “Hello, how are you today?”
B: “Good.”
A: “You know, you are rather beautiful, would you like to join me for dinner sometime?”
B: (insert random bullshit excuse which eventually equals out to no).

After subject A was brutally shutdown, subject B proceeds to go and make fun of subject A with her friends. Words such as creepy, weird, and freak are thrown around (i.e. - some creepy guy came up to me today and asked me out on a date) as if subject A did something wrong. Let’s goto scenario 2.

Scenario 2.

The setting is a bar. Subject A is our attractive male again, and subject B is our attractive female.

A: Hey, how’s it goin?
B: Good.

Random chit chat ensues, subject A converses with small talk and buys subject B drinks all night. Subject B gets tipsy.

A: Wanna go back to my place and watch a movie? (Dane Cook, you rock.)
B: Sure. (Because everyone loves cinematic adventures.)

But we all know, they aren’t going to watch a movie. Later in the week, subject B tells her friends about a hot guy she hooked up with, and subject A brags about some bar slut he nailed.

So, what is wrong with this picture? In case you couldn’t figure it out, the woman in the situation thought a random compliment and an honest attempt at a date was creepy. However, some random guy at a bar buys her drinks to relieve her inhibitions, asks her to go back to his house (not a date), and it’s a positive thing. The funny thing is, this happens on a daily basis. Who’s fault is it?

Impressing women with your “masculine” skills implies many things. It’s not just “I can kick so and so’s ass” or “I can bench 600 pounds.” No, masculine is not defined that way. Being chivalrous in and of itself is something to be considered masculine. Our last example ends up tying the loose ends here. Holding doors, paying for dates, providing for a woman, defending her from others, protecting her from harm, hell having a sense of pride for your woman and helping her in her times of need to prevent her from making mistakes is masculine. It’s something that should be a given in today’s society, but it isn’t! Why isn’t it? I’ll tell you why. But before I do, let me make one thing clear. I am a supporter, and follow of chivalry. I think women should be treated with respect, I think women deserve respect, and no matter what I always will be chivalrous. With that being said, here it is.

INDEPENDENCE. I told you I’d come back to this. Women want their independence; it’s a feminist thing. Women want to be totally equal with men on all levels. Well, you’re getting it ladies, and chivalry is suffering because of it. If you want your independence, defend yourself, pay for yourself, hold your own doors, help yourself in times of need, call every honest man who approaches you for a date attempt creepy, b**** when we call you out of the blue because you think “we’re checking up on you”, and call every guy who tries to impress you an a**hole. Do all of it, but don’t once complain about how men don’t treat women with respect, because we’re treating you with the same respect we give each other. Welcome to our world. If chivalry is dead, it’s because women like that killed it.

[Eother]

Awesome. That was really good. Thumbs up! A lot of women expect to be absolutely equal, but will get mad if you treat them with respect. I hate that.


I've always tried to follow chivalry, it's in my upbringing. I do the whole "sir" and "ma'am" thing. I always open doors for them. If they don't say thank you, I say "you're welcome" anyway (not rudely). If I see a woman being "bothered" by a male, I'll definitely interfere. I do my best to be nice, and the such. If they don't like it, I don't care. From my experience, everybody seems to be a whore these days. They always seem kind of surprised when I treat them with respect, instead of engaging in sexual banter.

I was at a school dance last month, and it made me sick. The "dancing" was more soft-core porn. It was disgusting. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who even bothers with any code of honor, anymore. I wouldn't want to touch somebody who had slept around. I always get kinda depressed when I look at some of my classmates, and realize what sluts they are. I can't help but think "no, what is wrong with you people"?

However, I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to abandon my morals because the rest of the world has. I'll stick to my code of honor. One thing I have noticed...I seem to influence people. I started hanging around a guy who drank a lot; he thought the only way to have fun was to party. He'd pretty much given up on having any ambition in life. After about a year with him, I broke him of his destructive, apathetic lifestyle. Really, some people just need an example. I manage to be popular without living the way they do. This alone influences them.
Now, this guy refuses to drink. He has started learning guitar, and is taking singing lessons. He has started to set an example for others. The other day, some girl he knew was going to go to a party, get drunk, the works. He was obviously disappointed in her. He simply told her that he would lose a lot of respect for her if she did that. The next day, she CALLS him, tells him that she went, but didn't drink a bit. She asked him if he thought she was a bad person. See how it works? It's a chain effect. Don't insult their lifestyle, just be yourself, and don't cave in to social pressure. Be an example, an opinion leader, a beacon in the dark. Help them realize they can be more, that they don't HAVE to live that life.

I know there are people on this forum who live that drinking, womanizing life. I'm not criticizing you, I just believe there are more fulfilling ways to live your life. My afore-mentioned friend has become more popular, more happy, and a lot more ambitious since he gave it up.

[jackjitsu]

[Eother]

[aiseop]

[jiujitsunoob]

I order for my wife all the time - however it is only after she tells me what she wants. I order for my kids too - after they and my wife tells me what to order. I order for myself too - thank Rickson Gracie my wife let's me decide what I want to eat.

I want very badly to buy a truck as my car is 18 years old and is starting to suffer from various minor issues. Even though I have the money for the truck my wife told me no just fix my car.

Now I also do a LOT of things contrary to what she would rather I do and she pretty much let's me do what I please as long as I am spending sufficient time with my children. She tells me I spend too much time with her sometimes but that's because I work out of the house and she does not work.

Could I go out and buy a new truck? Dam right I could
Would she be OK with it? Eventually

But why would I disrespect her so much!

Where was this going? Am I getting ? not sure but basically I do a lot of things out of respect and caring for her that I would not otherwise do.

[Zending]

[aiseop]

Good post, jjnoob. I think what you're getting at is that we wouldn't want other men treating the women in our lives -- mothers, sisters -- in a manner demeaning to them. Now, what actions demean or disrespect a certain gender is up for debate as Zending's post argues. However, I think Z's issue has more to do with the ambivalence that contemporary men are placed in by women and the -isms of today. I agree that it's confusing. I think the best strategy when it comes to these issues, including ethnicity, age(?), et al, is to stay as far away from generalizations as possible... your example of your family dynamics is the only important and true arena for this.

[Eother]

[jiujitsunoob]

Glad you all got something out of my post - as usual I start off with an idea I want to convey and end up getting side tracked into stories.

Which reminds me of this time in college where I had to write a paper.........

[flash_416]

Great Great great Post!

Tottaly Agree! 3 thumbs up!

[bma_mat]

I´m with Zending here 100%. I have debated on this topic on more than one ocassion. Glad to see other people noticing this.

I also agree very much that women are not only looking for equality, but superiority, as stated above, since they want all the advantages of being a man, and none of the disadvantages.

[aiseop]

[aiseop]

[bma_mat]

It´s kool to disagree. But just by disagreeing, you give him the right to further fight for his position.

I on one hand do agree with everything he said.

[bma_mat]

[jiujitsunoob]

I would say the majority of women have no grand intentions to be superior than "Men" but want to be in their minds "Equal" - equal pay, equal opportunities, equal freedom. But just like there are some men that think women should stay at home, remain naked, barefoot, and pregnate there are also those individual women who think men should be toys to be played with and discarded at their whim and who view themselves and women in general as superior to men.

You can not look at the population of "women" on the basis of a few women case examples but must look to them as a whole based upon their actions as reflected by the group. EDIT - when reviewing them as a demographic - this is not contradictory to my views below when looking at an individual.

The above goes for any case involving populations.

For example race - specifically black vs white (hot topic in the south east).
I have awesome friends whom are black and I try super hard to NOT judge any 1 person I meet based upon a perceived bias that is common here in the South East.

You should judge each person based upon your knowledge OF THAT PERSON and the situation your in. To do otherwise would be a tragic error.

For example - if I'm in the poorer section of town and I'm walking along and see a young black guy with a red bandanna I will probably make the assumption he's a member of the Bloods - and I will probably be very alert but nod my head as I pass in a casual greeting.

Same person wearing the same cloths walks into my school and I'll probably shake his hand and greet him introducing myself.

Assuming he was not a total ass in class if I'm walking down the street in the same scenario as before I would stop, shake hands and greet him because my knowledge of him had increased from the first encounter.

So stories and hypothetical situations aside I would say do not to judge any individual from a demographic based upon preconceived views about the demographic as a whole.

EDIT: after reading my own thoughts I wanted to add more I think a lot of the wrong bias/views held about a demographic come from selected individuals who are not in the spectrum of the whole demographic. So a few bad apples have ruined the actual demographic norm by their behavior. I truly hope what I am saying makes since.

[pbucch]

pretty misgonistic, Im not really feeling that paper. Id fail you on poor writing and organization, as well as a lack of fluid transition.

[Eother]

[Disco]