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blksheep618
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 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:29 am Post subject: Who is the smallest person to win an Absolute division |
 #1 |
Im only talking major tournaments like Worlds. I know Ciao lost to Pablo in Worlds Absolute but I cant think of a smaller person to win against a much larger opponent
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relax
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Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 570
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:38 am Post subject: |
#2 |
| Marcelo Garcia? |
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jackjitsu
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:55 am Post subject: |
#3 |
I dont think Garcia has ever won the worlds at Absolute.
Youre thinking of the ADCC.
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Carlos Gracie ---> Carlos Gracie Jr. ---> Nelson Monteiro ---> Marcelo Pereira ---> My blue belt
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Carlos Gracie ---> Helio Gracie ---> Royce Gracie ---> Billy Dowey/Jason Culbreth ---> My brown belt  |
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relax
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:18 am Post subject: |
#4 |
Well he said major tournaments... ADCC is pretty major  |
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relax
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Posts: 570
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: |
#5 |
Doesn't look like he's actually won it though...
Gold 2003 Sao Paulo, Brazil -77 kg
Gold 2005 California, USA -77 kg
Bronze 2005 California, USA Absolute
Gold 2007 New Jersey, USA -77 kg
Silver 2007 New Jersey, USA Absolute
Silver 2009 Barcelona, Spain -77kg
Gold 2011 Nottingham, United Kingdom -77kg
He did win the Brazilian Nationals tho in Absolute....
Gold 2006 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Absolute |
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12
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: |
#6 |
| Galvao won the ADCC Absolute and has also fought at under 77kg (170 lbs) which is Garcia's weight class. To be fair though, when he won he was in the under 88kg (194) division. |
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BJJMark95
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:56 am Post subject: |
#7 |
I think Caio Terra won like the US open or one of the bigger tournaments in the states in the Open. I just remember it was a big story because he almost triangled Bruno Bastos who is a super heavy weight.
The picture is epic.
Bruno Bastos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caio Terra in size.
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clinzy
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:00 am Post subject: |
#8 |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
I think Caio Terra won like the US open or one of the bigger tournaments in the states in the Open. I just remember it was a big story because he almost triangled Bruno Bastos who is a super heavy weight.
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I was thinking maybe it was Caio Terra, too, but then I thought I must be wrong because he doesn't actually win the big events. He whines about how everything is unfair when he loses instead. |
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blksheep618
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:05 am Post subject: |
#9 |
Interesting indeed. The art was intented by a 130lb guy. I would lve to see a 130lb guy win a major open weight tournament.
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Forca77
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:12 am Post subject: |
#10 |
| Ronaldo Souza won the Mudials Absolute division twice at 185lbs. |
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BJJMark95
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:13 am Post subject: |
#11 |
| clinzy wrote: |
I was thinking maybe it was Caio Terra, too, but then I thought I must be wrong because he doesn't actually win the big events. He whines about how everything is unfair when he loses instead. |
He actually had every right to complain about the ruling this year... if you were there and saw it like I did you would agree. And Caio has subbed Malfacine in the past, but I dont believe Bruno has ever won by more than advantages (dont quote me on that as I do not remember).
This is a topic for another discussion all together though 
Also yes BJJ was designed for the smaller guy, but when both the smaller guy and the bigger guy both are at such a high level of jiu-jitsu... size, strength, speed, conditioning, and all around athleticism are HUGE.
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gatorez1913
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: |
#12 |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| clinzy wrote: |
I was thinking maybe it was Caio Terra, too, but then I thought I must be wrong because he doesn't actually win the big events. He whines about how everything is unfair when he loses instead. |
He actually had every right to complain about the ruling this year... if you were there and saw it like I did you would agree. And Caio has subbed Malfacine in the past, but I dont believe Bruno has ever won by more than advantages (dont quote me on that as I do not remember).
This is a topic for another discussion all together though
Also yes BJJ was designed for the smaller guy, but when both the smaller guy and the bigger guy both are at such a high level of jiu-jitsu... size, strength, speed, conditioning, and all around athleticism are HUGE. |
Well Bruno is going to have surgery on his shoulder tomorrow, hopefully he will be back 100% before tournament season next year so he can beat Caio again.
I'm just kidding I actually really like and appreciate both of those guys game. |
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clinzy
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:22 am Post subject: |
#13 |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| clinzy wrote: |
I was thinking maybe it was Caio Terra, too, but then I thought I must be wrong because he doesn't actually win the big events. He whines about how everything is unfair when he loses instead. |
He actually had every right to complain about the ruling this year... if you were there and saw it like I did you would agree. And Caio has subbed Malfacine in the past, but I dont believe Bruno has ever won by more than advantages (dont quote me on that as I do not remember).
This is a topic for another discussion all together though
Also yes BJJ was designed for the smaller guy, but when both the smaller guy and the bigger guy both are at such a high level of jiu-jitsu... size, strength, speed, conditioning, and all around athleticism are HUGE. |
It's not just this year. It's year after year. But yes - topic for another thread.
Your last sentence is the biggest thing, though - size and strength absolutely matter when technique is equal. Even when technique isn't equal - a world class purple belt at 200 lbs probably beats a 150 lb 'average Joe' black belt 9 out of 10 times. On paper, the black belt knows more, right? In reality, that purple belt is likely to come out on top because of his size and strength advantage because of those other attributes. He has enough understanding of the technique to still win. |
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Pikachu
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:29 am Post subject: |
#14 |
| clinzy wrote: |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| clinzy wrote: |
I was thinking maybe it was Caio Terra, too, but then I thought I must be wrong because he doesn't actually win the big events. He whines about how everything is unfair when he loses instead. |
He actually had every right to complain about the ruling this year... if you were there and saw it like I did you would agree. And Caio has subbed Malfacine in the past, but I dont believe Bruno has ever won by more than advantages (dont quote me on that as I do not remember).
This is a topic for another discussion all together though
Also yes BJJ was designed for the smaller guy, but when both the smaller guy and the bigger guy both are at such a high level of jiu-jitsu... size, strength, speed, conditioning, and all around athleticism are HUGE. |
It's not just this year. It's year after year. But yes - topic for another thread.
Your last sentence is the biggest thing, though - size and strength absolutely matter when technique is equal. Even when technique isn't equal - a world class purple belt at 200 lbs probably beats a 150 lb 'average Joe' black belt 9 out of 10 times. On paper, the black belt knows more, right? In reality, that purple belt is likely to come out on top because of his size and strength advantage because of those other attributes. He has enough understanding of the technique to still win. |
Do you think a world class purple would beat a lot of 'average Joe ' black belts at the same weight? I do.
Anyway that is a digression. |
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Moonpaw
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:30 am Post subject: |
#15 |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| clinzy wrote: |
I was thinking maybe it was Caio Terra, too, but then I thought I must be wrong because he doesn't actually win the big events. He whines about how everything is unfair when he loses instead. |
He actually had every right to complain about the ruling this year... if you were there and saw it like I did you would agree. And Caio has subbed Malfacine in the past, but I dont believe Bruno has ever won by more than advantages (dont quote me on that as I do not remember).
This is a topic for another discussion all together though
Also yes BJJ was designed for the smaller guy, but when both the smaller guy and the bigger guy both are at such a high level of jiu-jitsu... size, strength, speed, conditioning, and all around athleticism are HUGE. |
I'm glad at least some people recognize this. Some guy in no-gi (so I didn't know his rank) lectured me (a blue belt) the other day on how BJJ is about angles and leverage and not strength or size. I wanted to smack him.
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Growler
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:51 am Post subject: |
#16 |
| clinzy wrote: |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| clinzy wrote: |
I was thinking maybe it was Caio Terra, too, but then I thought I must be wrong because he doesn't actually win the big events. He whines about how everything is unfair when he loses instead. |
He actually had every right to complain about the ruling this year... if you were there and saw it like I did you would agree. And Caio has subbed Malfacine in the past, but I dont believe Bruno has ever won by more than advantages (dont quote me on that as I do not remember).
This is a topic for another discussion all together though
Also yes BJJ was designed for the smaller guy, but when both the smaller guy and the bigger guy both are at such a high level of jiu-jitsu... size, strength, speed, conditioning, and all around athleticism are HUGE. |
It's not just this year. It's year after year. But yes - topic for another thread.
Your last sentence is the biggest thing, though - size and strength absolutely matter when technique is equal. Even when technique isn't equal - a world class purple belt at 200 lbs probably beats a 150 lb 'average Joe' black belt 9 out of 10 times. On paper, the black belt knows more, right? In reality, that purple belt is likely to come out on top because of his size and strength advantage because of those other attributes. He has enough understanding of the technique to still win. |
At the beginner level I think it matters a lot (which is where I'm at)...but when I go against the upper blues/purples at my school who I may outweigh by say 40-50 pounds or more...I am very humbled.
I was training in a nogi class with a purple yesterday (a transfer who I think was from a eleventh Pleenet btw)...I was really impressed. He's a very fit I'd say 185-190 and I'm like 240 and tons of fat. I had nothing for him. I could get a hold down position but the moment I'd try a submission I'd be reversed and tooled upon,.
It's embarrassing really..when you're training with someone who's so far above you that you feel like you're wasting their time. (this was a nice guy, though). Well, I guess not. It's always nice to have target practice. |
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Ybot
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Posts: 901
Location: Modesto, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:07 am Post subject: |
#17 |
As mentioned above, Jacare was the lightest guy to ever win the absolutes at the worlds, and he did it twice.
So then I looked over the results to see the lightest guy to have medaled in the absolutes at worlds. Royler Gracie took Bronze in 1997 and competed at Super Feather. Next lightest guy to have medaled was Marcelo Garcia who took bronze twice in 2004 and 2006. Marcelo competed as a middle weight those (and every) years. Claudio Calasans took bronze in 2009, and I beleive usually competes at middle also, but since he didn' medal at weight I can't confirm his weight that year.
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bma_mat
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
#18 |
| clinzy wrote: |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| clinzy wrote: |
I was thinking maybe it was Caio Terra, too, but then I thought I must be wrong because he doesn't actually win the big events. He whines about how everything is unfair when he loses instead. |
He actually had every right to complain about the ruling this year... if you were there and saw it like I did you would agree. And Caio has subbed Malfacine in the past, but I dont believe Bruno has ever won by more than advantages (dont quote me on that as I do not remember).
This is a topic for another discussion all together though
Also yes BJJ was designed for the smaller guy, but when both the smaller guy and the bigger guy both are at such a high level of jiu-jitsu... size, strength, speed, conditioning, and all around athleticism are HUGE. |
It's not just this year. It's year after year. But yes - topic for another thread.
Your last sentence is the biggest thing, though - size and strength absolutely matter when technique is equal. Even when technique isn't equal - a world class purple belt at 200 lbs probably beats a 150 lb 'average Joe' black belt 9 out of 10 times. On paper, the black belt knows more, right? In reality, that purple belt is likely to come out on top because of his size and strength advantage because of those other attributes. He has enough understanding of the technique to still win. |
Nah, I'd go as far to say that a world class purple belt will beat the average joe black belt at exactly the same weight class.
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| kuangren wrote: |
| ...every time a blue belt quits BJJ, Rickson Gracie kills a kitten!! You don't want any more kittens to die, DO YOU!?... |
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clinzy
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Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
#19 |
| bma_mat wrote: |
| clinzy wrote: |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| clinzy wrote: |
I was thinking maybe it was Caio Terra, too, but then I thought I must be wrong because he doesn't actually win the big events. He whines about how everything is unfair when he loses instead. |
He actually had every right to complain about the ruling this year... if you were there and saw it like I did you would agree. And Caio has subbed Malfacine in the past, but I dont believe Bruno has ever won by more than advantages (dont quote me on that as I do not remember).
This is a topic for another discussion all together though
Also yes BJJ was designed for the smaller guy, but when both the smaller guy and the bigger guy both are at such a high level of jiu-jitsu... size, strength, speed, conditioning, and all around athleticism are HUGE. |
It's not just this year. It's year after year. But yes - topic for another thread.
Your last sentence is the biggest thing, though - size and strength absolutely matter when technique is equal. Even when technique isn't equal - a world class purple belt at 200 lbs probably beats a 150 lb 'average Joe' black belt 9 out of 10 times. On paper, the black belt knows more, right? In reality, that purple belt is likely to come out on top because of his size and strength advantage because of those other attributes. He has enough understanding of the technique to still win. |
Nah, I'd go as far to say that a world class purple belt will beat the average joe black belt at exactly the same weight class. |
I think you're probably right about that, too (and whoever asked the same thing a few posts back). I've seen it in no gi divisions, and I'm sure most of you have, too. Yes, I know, it's not quite the same thing, but it gives you a pretty good idea. |
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blksheep618
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Joined: 26 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:35 pm Post subject: |
#20 |
Thanks for the responses. I agree that size and strength are not as big at lower levels but black and brown belts have very little that distinguishes the good from the great. And something like extra size could be the differentiator.
I am also curious how results in Absolutes affects ranking. I know some smaller guys may be fundamentally sound but do not participate in Absolutes due to their size.
I think I might do a little quantitative research and post the results on southernjiujitsu.com.
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