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| Would you stop mid roll? |
| Yes |
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| no |
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[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 30 |
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muttonwar
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Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 364
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 Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: Leg attacks in a no leg attack gym |
 #1 |
| If you were rolling with a guy who was using leg attacks when he is not allowed to. Would you stop rolling with the person mid roll? |
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cls87
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 442
Location: Chesapeake, OH
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:20 pm Post subject: |
#2 |
| Absolutely. Im not trying to end my jiu jitsu career because someone wants to throw on some leg locks. Im not saying hes incapable of properly applying them, but I dont understand them enough to not injure myself. I wouldnt just get up and walk away, I would just tell him "Hey, lets not do leg locks". Besides I think leg locks while rolling in class are something that should be discussed with your partner before you start rolling, so that you both agree to them. |
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muttonwar
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Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: |
#3 |
I try to avoid rolling with the person that does this. But I will have to roll with him eventually.
My coach throws leg locks sometimes just to make you aware when you make a stupid mistake that makes leg locks super obvious. So this person thinks hes doing the same.
How would you approach stoping mid roll. Just say flat out "No leg locks means no leg locks, i think i'm done" ? |
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jackjitsu
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 16130
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: |
#4 |
Depends on their rank and my relationship with them.
Now heel hooks...I dont allow anyone to use on me including black belts.
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muttonwar
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
#5 |
| Its a hot headed blue belt |
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TonyHubris
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Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 485
Location: Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: |
#6 |
I think you should ALWAYS mind your legs. I don't typically go for leg attacks, but I always anticipate having my legs attacked. I definitely wouldn't stop mid roll if you go for a foot or threaten a knee bar.
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bsenka
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Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 616
Location: Winterpeg
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
#7 |
I wouldn't train somewhere that didn't allow them. I don't want Jiu-Jitsu to get Judo-ized.
Both of the schools I train at teach leglocks, even to white belts. It's part of the art. |
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jackjitsu
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 16130
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
#8 |
Ive never been to a school that doesnt teach them.
But they come with rank based on level of danger/risk.
Its like spinal locks.... white belts are NOT allowed to use them 
I wouldnt let a white belt go for knee bars or toe holds either on me. Straight ankle lock im fine with everyone doing.
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" Its CRUCIAL to train with the GI to have the finest technique." - Marcelo Garcia - worlds best NO GI grappler
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent" -- Thomas Jefferson
Carlos Gracie ---> Carlos Gracie Jr. ---> Nelson Monteiro ---> Marcelo Pereira ---> My blue belt
Carlos Gracie ---> Carlson Gracie --->Mario Sperry ---> Carlos Aveline ---> Odie Neto ---> My purple belt
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Passenger
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Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 213
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:48 pm Post subject: |
#9 |
| jackjitsu wrote: |
Ive never been to a school that doesnt teach them.
But they come with rank based on level of danger/risk.
Its like spinal locks.... white belts are NOT allowed to use them
I wouldnt let a white belt go for knee bars or toe holds either on me. Straight ankle lock im fine with everyone doing. |
Straight ankle locks seem best for white belts. I do knee bars and toe holds because i've been told I'm allowed to but I only do them on the other 4th stripe whites and blues.
I can see why a lot of schools here don't allow any leg locks until blue. I cannot imagine anyone under a years experience trying a kneebar. |
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smokelaw1
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Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 286
Location: Hartford Area, CT
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:11 am Post subject: |
#10 |
When I roll with higher belts (they are not supposed to go for leg attacks against white belts, I think because we don't know enough to see it coming and may injure ourself by defending stupidly), most of them threaten it, but don't apply it, and just move on. One brown belt will grab it but immediately let go, regardless of whether I tap or not. I think that if done like this, it's fine. But then again, there's a reason I'm not taught them yet!!
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pedronrf
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Posts: 117
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:12 am Post subject: Re: Leg attacks in a no leg attack gym |
#11 |
| muttonwar wrote: |
| If you were rolling with a guy who was using leg attacks when he is not allowed to. Would you stop rolling with the person mid roll? |
Hi there. I answered yes although probably I wouldn't exactly stop rolling in mid roll, but I had a similar situation.
I assume what we're talking about tantamounts to a security breach, that is, there are specific norms set by your instructor that disallow leg attacks for that particular person.
If so then I personally take these things very seriously.
In my case a bunch of us white belts were taught the straigth ankle lock but ttold that we could only use when rolling with our instructor, with the exception of those who had 4 stripes who could practice it on each other.
While rolling with a 4 stripe white belt he tried to lock it on me with quite some strength and not a lot of care. Fortunately I just shook it off and warned him but was basically ignored. Had he tried it again the way he was grabing my foot, pulling back, and giving me leverage, I would have tried using his lock on my foot as a point of support to quickly get up and go for a throw (tomoe nage or kosoto gake). My bjj teammates don't really do throws and many don't know how to fall, so I would after explain that it's exactly because of security that I dont' use them.
In the end thankfully there was no need and I ended up just having a good conversation with him and we settled the matter quite peacefyully.
But had he persisted in his behavior I would have just told him:" Fine, then I won't roll with you any more".
bsenka I understand your position and am fine with it, but what ask is, suppose you were training in a gym where the instructor's orders prevented you from applying another type of technique, would you disregard these orders?
For me when it comes to security the instructor is Rickson Gracie. I now have 3 stripes on my belt and to this day have never tried a straight ankle lock although I was originally taught 6 months ago. When my instructor tells me he feels I can try it I will.
PS: muttonwar if this is about a specific situation my advice is have a good talk with the guy, I bet that will solve everything. If he can't see your point of view stop rolling with him. |
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judokamma
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Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:49 am Post subject: |
#12 |
depends on the guy/belt.
if it's some white belt i don't know, and he just came in, and we're rolling, the first time i'd warn him, "hey, chill with the leg attacks. it's something you should probably focus on after white belt." and the add'l warning of, "if you do that to some people here, be prepared that it may not be a super friendly roll any longer."
if he blows me off and does it again i'm probably gonna roll like its a tournament. |
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relax_on_the_mat
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Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 1193
Location: Washington
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:55 am Post subject: |
#13 |
if it's a white belt, i stop the roll immediately and tell them that leg locks & heel hooks are off limits.
if it's not a white belt, i tap if they are even remotely close to getting it. i'm not very good at applying/escaping lower body submissions so i play it safe. one of our bigger blues put a knee bar on me during a scramble and it was so fast i thought my kneecap was going to pop off. had a minor freak-out moment until i realized that it was a very minor hyper extension and no injury.
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double r
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Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 496
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:55 am Post subject: |
#14 |
Our place teaches and allows leg attacks after blue belt. I usually tap early if I feel any bit of danger. It's just not worth the risk. The problem with leg attacks is that they may not hurt until the damage is done. You should always mind your legs, though.
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billiniraq
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Joined: 12 Jun 2010
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Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: |
#15 |
I usually just tap really fast and early to them (except straight ankle lock...doesn't bother me too much). If it started to become annoying I would find a reason to go roll someone else.
Some people do leg locks because they are horrible guard passers. So they grab your leg or ankle and just start twisting anything they can get ahold of. That's annoying and I would stop rolling them.
Others set them up and are skilled with them. I love these people because I can learn how not to let it happen again.
So I guess it just depends on the situation. |
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slimbeaux
Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Navasota, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: |
#16 |
This happened to me last night. I was very surprised at the leg lock attempt and I was not very happy about it.
I was under the impression we weren't allowed to try them. The guy who tried it was a 4 stripe white and pretty good guy to roll with normally. I think he was a little frustrated at not being able to submit me. I outweigh him by 40lbs or so and my techniques are catching up.
He didn't get it where it hurt me, so I didn't tap. Now, I think i need to suggest he find someone else to try them on until I learn how to defend.
I like the idea of the advanced belts catching the lock, without applying it... if that can be done? I saw someone earlier in the thread mention that.
As white belts, we aren't allowed leg locks of any sort, nor wrist locks. We've been shown the ankle lock and the wrist lock, but we cannot use them until blue.
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slideyfoot
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Joined: 03 Aug 2007
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Location: Bristol, UK
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: |
#17 |
If it was a lower belt, I'd probably stop: I don't trust their control. If it was a higher belt, I'd take the opportunity to work my defence against leglocks.
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Kintanon
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Location: Athens, Ga
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject: |
#18 |
I would probably be the one applying the leg lock, not realizing that I was visiting a gym where they weren't allowed...
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Relentless
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:29 pm Post subject: |
#19 |
No, I wouldn't stop. I'd to my best to avoid/escape and if I couldn't, I'd tap. And if I felt like they weren't safe in doing it, I'd ask them to politely to cease with the leg locks.
IMO, Leg locks are part of the game. For competitions, too. You need to immerse yourself in everything. it can only make your game better.
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crojo659
Joined: 08 May 2011
Posts: 40
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:13 pm Post subject: |
#20 |
| Even though they're not allowed at my school I'd be happy to add them in with most upper belts and some select whites (except heel hooks) since I've rolled a decent amount with a black belt and a higher blue including them and I have enough awareness to know when to tap. I figure I need to be able to defend them later anyway. But anyone I wasn't comfortable with who wasn't controlled aka most whites I'd tap as soon as possible and tell them not to attack legs, before continuing the roll. If they did it again I wouldn't roll with them again for a while |
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