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the oompa-loompa
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 115
Location: bergen,norway
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 Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: girls,need your advice! |
 #1 |
Im an instructor,and we have gathered 4-5 regular girls at our academy.
and i think its great! so how do i keep them onboard? i read some of the "i think im quitting" thread,and i dont want that to happen at our gym....
its not always easy to get the "feel" of whats going throu there head,even if i ask i don't always get a fullfilling answer... soooo can some of the girls here give me some pointers??
this is what i do now:
#always let the girls have the option of drilling,and rolling with each other if they want to. if they dont feel like sparring with a guy,then its no problem,and i make sure that i dont "make a scene" about it.
#if they roll with a guy and i see that the guy goes to hard,i tell him to take it easy. if not then i roll with him after.... hard.
#when i roll with a girl i make sure to use no strength and all technique.... if they get the pass and i cant use my technique to stop them,then let them pass.
#i sometimes give a submission,but i kinda feel bad about it,because its almost like they can read me giving it....they cant get a sub with technique on me because they are white belts..... so i just dont know about that one thou... is it wrong? because i want to give them confidence but i dont want them to feel like im doing them a favour...
please feel free to correct me in my mistakes!
P.S i don't think that the girls are about to quit at all,but i want to make sure that we are doing the right things so that quitting because of me as trainer never becomes an issue.
thanks!
_________________
purple belt under Eduardo "Teta" Rios/Renato Tavares(both black belts under Ricardo Liborio)
www.bergengrappling.com |
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Skiz
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 236
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:37 pm Post subject: |
#2 |
| I'm definately not a girl, but I'm sure the fact that you care enough to even create this post is evidence that you're doing a good job keeping your female students happy and motivated. |
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slideyfoot
3 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Bucks, UK
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kuangren
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 755
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: |
#4 |
Maybe you're already doing this, but just casually talk to them one-on-one after class just to ask how they are doing, if they're satisfied with their training experience, and if there's any way you could make it better. That way you can get some feedback and also give them the impression that they are welcome and you value them being there.
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Blue Belt @ Korea BJJ Academy
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SavageKitsune
3 thumbs up
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 354
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:23 pm Post subject: |
#5 |
Very first thing:
Unless they are under age 13, don't call them "girls"- call them "women"! 
I'll have more later; right now I'm on my way out the door to class.
_________________
The world would never have been the same had any of the Western prophets been struck by the same intuition that myth attributes to Bodhidharma. Probably, the entire Western culture would be drastically different. No rivalry between spirit and body. No tug-of-war between the soul yearning for Heaven and the body restraining it on Earth. Rather than wasting our energies quarreling with our bodies and with the natural world, we could let spirituality and sensuality dance cheek to cheek. -Daniele Bolelli, On The Warrior’s Path
Last edited by SavageKitsune on Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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slideyfoot
3 thumbs up
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Bucks, UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
#6 |
| SavageKitsune wrote: |
| Unless they are under age 13, don't call them "girls"- call them "women"! |
Heh - yeah, that bothers my girlfriend too, so I've tried to train myself to avoid saying it. She also doesn't like 'lady', and I can see why.
'Woman' is a bit nondescript, but at least it doesn't have quite the same historical baggage.
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the oompa-loompa
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 115
Location: bergen,norway
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:13 pm Post subject: |
#7 |
| SavageKitsune wrote: |
Very first thing:
Unless they are under age 13, don't call them "girls"- call them "women"!
I'll have more later; right now I'm on my out the door to class. |
im from norway,and we only use "jente" wich translates directly to "girl" in english. its realy just me translating wrong;)
jente is the right way to say it here 
_________________
purple belt under Eduardo "Teta" Rios/Renato Tavares(both black belts under Ricardo Liborio)
www.bergengrappling.com |
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davii
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:54 pm Post subject: |
#8 |
Actually, dont let them sub you by sticking your arm out or something.
If you turtle up and go 30% and they sneak in something good, let them have it. but dont just "give a sub every now and then." No one likes this that much because it doesnt mean anything.
Don't go OUT of your way to accommodate them. If the guy goes rough with one of them - pull him aside and tell him in person. If you can, try to let the round end so that its not completely obvious.
Why? Because the girls that stick it out are competitive, and tough (even if they are girly.) They want to compete, they will play bjj. You have to let them.
I'm range between 135-145 in weight - so Im often with the girls if there isnt another one there. ALL of the ones that stick it out don't mind rolling properly. Obviously use technique over strength etc, but they don't want special treatment really.
Anyway, good luck. I'm sure you're doing fine! |
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Sistersteel
Joined: 12 Oct 2009
Posts: 57
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:01 am Post subject: |
#9 |
Well I started the infamous "I think I'm quitting thread" so I hope no one minds me adding my 2cc.
Positive reinforcement.
Encouragement.
Compassion and understanding.
Praise.
Praise.
Praise.
Sometimes all it takes is for my instructor to merely GLANCE my way while I am rolling to make it all alright. A pat on the back for a person like me goes a very long way. |
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celest
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 251
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:17 am Post subject: |
#10 |
| davii wrote: |
Actually, dont let them sub you by sticking your arm out or something.
If you turtle up and go 30% and they sneak in something good, let them have it. but dont just "give a sub every now and then." No one likes this that much because it doesnt mean anything.
Don't go OUT of your way to accommodate them. If the guy goes rough with one of them - pull him aside and tell him in person. If you can, try to let the round end so that its not completely obvious.
Why? Because the girls that stick it out are competitive, and tough (even if they are girly.) They want to compete, they will play bjj. You have to let them.
I'm range between 135-145 in weight - so Im often with the girls if there isnt another one there. ALL of the ones that stick it out don't mind rolling properly. Obviously use technique over strength etc, but they don't want special treatment really.
Anyway, good luck. I'm sure you're doing fine! |
I agree with you. I don't like it when people 'spoonfeed' me -- clearly you either underestimate me or you're trying to stroke any female-equivalent-to-a-male ego which I may or may not have. Don't worry, I will eventually submit you when I get better over time 
There's this senior belt who's about 15kg heavier than me (the same one whom I'm already uncomfortable with because of *his* variation of side control) and recently my instructor paired us up to roll. In the first place, I already felt reluctant to roll with him, but I respected my instructor's decision, so I went with it. When I grabbed his gi, he didn't move at all. I was like 'Hey man, what's up? Why aren't you responding? and he was like 'I'm much bigger and stronger than you, that's why'. When I say play technique, it doesn't mean that you should become a sloth and suddenly move slowly or simply be passive and wait to counter my moves.  After 5 minutes, I just told him 'You're not playing properly. I'm sorry. *bows*' and that was it.
I guess it's also a matter of gradually building up the intensity at which the girls roll at. When I first started out, I was paired with this 5ft lady, really small and petite (no offence SavageKitsune!) who was a former sprinter. Whoa, she was FIERCE! After a year, she left, so I was with the guys again, but by then I was already kinda used to rolling with them (yes it took me a year). It used to be rolling with just one person, then two, then before I knew it, I was rolling four consecutive rounds with the guys.
If there's one clever tactic which I think my instructor used to make me roll as much as I currently do, it's that he knew how to pace my rolling. In fact, he did it so slowly that I didn't even realise that I was rolling four rounds until I stopped to think about it! When I started rolling with the guys, it was solely with the ligher-weight black belts, then with some coloured belts. It was only when I was brown belt that I rolled with young, reckless, UFC-fighters wannabe boys -- sometimes I managed to control the game, other times it was a stalemate but it was alright, as long as they didn't get to break any of my body parts  I don't spar with guys who are above 80kg for fear of injury -- I get injured very easily and I don't want to risk any injury since I've just started competing.
Hope I don't sound long-winded, boring or something. It's been an extremely tough journey for me in this art but it's all worth it when I got my black belt last Wednesday. I love sharing my personal experiences; it'll be great to see more females embrace groundfighting, where size/weight doesn't really matter as much as throwing.
(P/S: the JJJ system is white > yellow > orange > green > blue > brown > black. I would like to clarify that I'm NOT a BJJ brown belt... yet.  )
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SavageKitsune
3 thumbs up
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 354
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:15 am Post subject: Re: girls,need your advice! |
#11 |
Tell them that your door is always open if they have anything they want to talk to you about.
Greet them by name with a smile when you see them.
Occasionally ask an open-ended question, like "How is your training going for you lately?" and act interested in the answers. Try to do this when you have time and attention to give- not two minutes before class begins or while you're shuffling papers at the same time. Some people tend to not be proactive about coming to you to talk, but if you go to them and draw them out just a bit, they may open up.
As far as having the female students work together.... it would be a good idea to discuss that privately with them on an individual basis. Personally, I do **NOT** want to always be paired up with the other females. Reasons: 1)There are only a few, so I would wind up working with the same two or three people all the time. When you work with different people, of different sizes and ability levels, you learn more. 2)As a self-defense-oriented MA-ist, I know that if I am attacked, it's likely not going to be by a woman in my own weight class.... it's going to be by a larger man. So who should I be practicing against? Right- larger men. Women who are focussed 100% on the sport aspect of BJJ may not care about this as much, but if they have any interest in their BJJ as defensive, they NEED to be practicing at least some of the time against larger men. 3)I personally don't have any discomforts about grappling with men. Some women may. One in five women has been raped or molested- and even some that haven't just are not very comfortable rolling around on the floor with sweaty men. 4)When the instructor is *always* pairing the women up together, it starts to look a little sexist- like he thinks we're not capable of working with the men, or not worthy to work with the men, or something. Anyhow, all these are *my* feelings; the women in your class- who knows how they feel about these issues? The only way to find out is to sit them down and ask them about it.
As far as "giving" subs, etc..... any good training partner knows that when you're working with someone who is smaller, or weaker, or newer, or otherwise not on your level- you should challenge them just enough that they have to stretch their abilities and work hard for what they get, but not so much that they can never get ANYTHING.
| the oompa-loompa wrote: |
#if they roll with a guy and i see that the guy goes to hard,i tell him to take it easy. if not then i roll with him after.... hard.
|
I know that this is a popular way to handle people who are being too rough, but I personally don't really agree with it. I don't think that type of payback humbles people, and many of them won't make the connection. They'll just get frustrated and more defensive, and rougher.
I think instructors should mindfully teach *everyone* in their classes what I said above about how to be a good training partner to people of differing levels. They should also teach *everyone* that it is each student's responsibility to communicate boundaries with their training partners- ie, if you have a sprung rib on the left, you need to tell your partner about it and ask hir to go easy with the weight on that side. If your partner is applying armbars too fast, you have to tell hir that, and ask hir to apply them slower so that you have time to tap. Everyone in class- not just the women- needs to feel comfortable about speaking up on stuff like that. If all the students communicate well with their training partners, and are responsive in turn when their partners communicate to THEM, they won't need you to run around trying to keep an eye on everyone and police their intensity level. If you're busy babysitting stuff like that, you're not teaching.
If my instructor kept coming up to my training partners and constantly reminding them to take it easy on me, I'd feel like he was being a little condescending to me. You may not know what is "too hard" for me. Nor do I want the men to be handling me like a china doll, or afraid to work with me at all for fear of hurting me or for fear of getting beaten down by you.
But again, some people are just not good about speaking up.... so this would definitely be another thing to simply discuss frankly in private with the female students. "Do you feel like the guys are being too rough? Do you feel comfortable asking them to ease up? When you ask them to ease up, do they DO it? Are there people that you just would rather not work with?"
And as I said in another thread, it needs to be okay for a student to decline to work with someone... another point that every instructor should teach to everyone in their classes.
_________________
The world would never have been the same had any of the Western prophets been struck by the same intuition that myth attributes to Bodhidharma. Probably, the entire Western culture would be drastically different. No rivalry between spirit and body. No tug-of-war between the soul yearning for Heaven and the body restraining it on Earth. Rather than wasting our energies quarreling with our bodies and with the natural world, we could let spirituality and sensuality dance cheek to cheek. -Daniele Bolelli, On The Warrior’s Path
Last edited by SavageKitsune on Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kyatite
Joined: 02 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:27 am Post subject: |
#12 |
I actually have never rolled or done jiu jitsu with a woman yet so I'm not sure how other women are about bjj but rolling with guys has made me get good pretty fast at all the defensive parts of bjj like not letting my arms get pulled(or muscled) out, bridge and rolling people when i get mounted, and all the other defensive things that keep a person from getting tapped. I admit it can be really frustrating to tap to all these guys but now I've started getting on top more and submitting them. This is why I think it's important for girls to roll with guys. also rolling hard takes a bit of getting used to if you aren't used to it.
My instructor tells .most of the guys to just use technique on me which i feel is much easier to hear than having him tell them to go easy on me... I still don't like it but I understand that they aren't going to get good or correct tecnique by being able to muscle me into submissions. they often use muscle anyways which is in general more fun for me...if they aren't hulk like or huge.
Also you could ask them each which guys they like rolling/practicing with and roatate them together more often I know I, and probably most people, have people who I train with and like rolling with the best.
I wouldn't worry too much about giving submissions unless that's not what you do with the guys. Whenever I, or anyone, roll with the instructor he will give openings for us to work the different moves we are learning if we miss them he moves on and once we start hitting them all he makes it harder. not to say that I don't get submited every time but somtimes once my timeing is right I can get somthing on him.
-to keep this response in context I go to a small school with all guys so i don't really know how big schools work- |
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