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cbrenner13
Joined: 06 Mar 2012
Posts: 47
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 Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: The black belts role in jiu jitsu |
 #1 |
I am a two stripe white belt and I am in love with this sport after 6 months. I am learning more and more every class and I am trying to learn more about the different belts, history, and learn more that just the technique and training part of the sport.
I have a general question as to what the role of a black belt in jiu jitsu is? Not the belt and what it signifies but the person that has earned the belt.
Obviously outside of being an expert jiu jitsu practitioner is the primary role to teach, promote the sport, compete, represent their school, etc?
Just curious as to the black belt life and what is to be expected. |
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TornadoChicken
3 thumbs up
Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: This is a really complicated and vague question... |
#2 |
| How 'bout we train our asses off, earn a black belt in 10 years or so, and let's find out for ourselves... |
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Ybot
3 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 901
Location: Modesto, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:50 pm Post subject: |
#3 |
A black belt is just an experienced student of the art. took me 10 years of consistant training to get a black belt, but suprise, suprise, I'm still the same guy who fell in love with jiu-jitsu all those years ago, just more experienced.
Outside of that I believe it is the responsibility of all upper belts to help your teammates grow in the art. We can all learn to be good training partners, and try to pass on the lessons we learned.
_________________
Kaizen Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Modesto, CA.
www.kaizen-bjj.com
Mitsuyo "Conde Koma" Maeda-> Carlos Gracie, Sr.-> Reyson Gracie-> Oswaldo Alves-> Fabrício Martins-> Ricardo Pinheiro "Tanque" Reis-> Cassio Werneck-> Me |
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Aikislacker
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:29 am Post subject: |
#4 |
YBot- I'm glad to see that answer. I've always thought that when one reaches black belt, it's time to give back to the art-pass it on to others, help your school.
It frustrates me when people get black belts, see their club struggling in numbers but with new students and they can't be bothered to come to class and help out. Or black belts that float in and out during class, doing their own thing and distracting people who are trying to rep.
We have a great example at our school of a new black belt- he always stays after class, asks the newer people what they're working on and then shows them a couple of things and lets them try them. Then he usually goes out to lunch with the teammates. If a class is struggling in terms of numbers, he comes to class and respectfully learns- whether the instructor is a blue belt, purple belt or black belt. he lets them run the class and practices what they show. He also goes to every seminar possible and encourages people along their path. |
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BJJMark95
3 thumbs up
Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 1041
Location: Calgary (Aberdeen & TEXAS)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: |
#5 |
Its true... it is nice for an upper belt to help out those who need it... but also, please dont expect it either. It is one thing to ask for help. For instance, if you ask me to help you, there is about a 95% chance I will gladly do it, but done EXPECT me to help you and dont take advantage of my help either. Also if it happens to be that 5% time where I am busy and am working on things myself dont take it personally. Now that being said if I am teaching class in the abscent of the head coach, then that is different and I am there to teach and help. But if I am not and I am training for a tournament, then that will be the primary focus of my time at the gym.
PLEASE also do not take advantage of an upper levels time who is there helping you. I have had this happen several times and it gets really annoying. I will get asked a question and one question turns into a free hour private. Or, I have asked if guys want to come in and train extra before class and a couple guys came and we started to roll and got 5 min of rolling in then an hour and a half of questions from them. So asking questions is fine but if you know you have a lot of questions and its going to take some time, perhaps ask an upper level for scheduling a private. Most guys, who are not the primary instructors at an academy, will work out things with you. Just keep that in mind as well. I see it all the time and it is ok maybe once but one time always turns into several.
Now I am not a black belt (.. yet) but I can tell you that right now at this phase in my training... I am not too focused on teaching and helping out simply because I am focused on training myself because I want to compete and not only compete but do well at competition. It is EXTREMELY difficult if not impossible to help everyone out at the academy and still find time to train yourself for the level of competition that I am training for.
Basically when I am training myself for competition, I only tend to want to train with the more advanced guys. I dont want lower belts to take that personally, its just I am training with a purpose and lower levels can actually hinder more than help because when you get to the upper levels... timing is everything and if your partners are not reacting the proper way or fast enough it can through your whole game off. I will train with both upper levels and guys who compete regularly because they train different than casual trainers.
SO - I would say yes it is good for you to help out others, but if you are not an instructor at the school and are there training yourself ESPECIALLY for competition, then you are not OBLIGATED to help out if you are focused on other things at that particular time and I think under level guys should respect that. Now if the said upper level guy is just pissing his time away and being a douche about it then that is not kosher either. There is a fine line there where each party should respect the other.
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"The rest of you can go to HELL! ... I am going to train jiu-jitsu in TEXAS!"
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Aikislacker
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:14 am Post subject: |
#6 |
I wouldn't say it's expected-I would never expect that. I just find it extremely nice when it's offered. I wouldn't glom on the guy's time uninvited at all.
I do think what this guy does is the ideal though, at least for our club.
I do come from a judo/aikido background as well, so the mindset may be a bit different for what I'd hope to see from a black belt versus what I'd say if I were just from BJJ and a very competition based school. |
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bebop
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:35 pm Post subject: |
#7 |
| why is it that people expect so much out of black belts. if one reaches a black belt then he should be just who he is nothing more nothing less. he shouldn't all of the sudden become this vocal leader of the dojo if he never was before. thats just a sign of a pretentious chump trying to be something he is not. |
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georgetteoden
3 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 309
Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
#8 |
| bebop wrote: |
| why is it that people expect so much out of black belts. if one reaches a black belt then he should be just who he is nothing more nothing less. he shouldn't all of the sudden become this vocal leader of the dojo if he never was before. thats just a sign of a pretentious chump trying to be something he is not. |
Now if that isn't a pot calling a kettle black... funny that a 14 yr old whitebelt training under 6 months has an opinion on this....
_________________
Blue belt, training at Gracie Humaita Austin.
Helio Gracie > Royler Gracie > Donald Park/Paulo Coelho Brandao > me.
georgetteoden.blogspot.com |
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bebop
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
#9 |
| georgetteoden wrote: |
| bebop wrote: |
| why is it that people expect so much out of black belts. if one reaches a black belt then he should be just who he is nothing more nothing less. he shouldn't all of the sudden become this vocal leader of the dojo if he never was before. thats just a sign of a pretentious chump trying to be something he is not. |
Now if that isn't a pot calling a kettle black... funny that a 14 yr old whitebelt training under 6 months has an opinion on this.... |
i mean one should be true to who one is. whats funny is a black belt trying to live up to someone's expectations of mannerisms and the way he/she carries themselves. |
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BJJMark95
3 thumbs up
Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 1041
Location: Calgary (Aberdeen & TEXAS)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
#10 |
| georgetteoden wrote: |
| bebop wrote: |
| why is it that people expect so much out of black belts. if one reaches a black belt then he should be just who he is nothing more nothing less. he shouldn't all of the sudden become this vocal leader of the dojo if he never was before. thats just a sign of a pretentious chump trying to be something he is not. |
Now if that isn't a pot calling a kettle black... funny that a 14 yr old whitebelt training under 6 months has an opinion on this.... |
Surprisingly though it makes sense... He does have a point. A person should start showing their initiative in the school with helping others around blue and purple. So if they have not showed it up until then I think its safe to say that that is a good sign they wont once a black belt.
_________________
"The rest of you can go to HELL! ... I am going to train jiu-jitsu in TEXAS!"
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georgetteoden
3 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 309
Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
#11 |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| Surprisingly though it makes sense... He does have a point. A person should start showing their initiative in the school with helping others around blue and purple. So if they have not showed it up until then I think its safe to say that that is a good sign they wont once a black belt. |
While I agree with what you're saying, I think the difference between Bebop's perspective and yours is-- Bebop is being prescriptive (what someone shouldn't do) and you're being descriptive (what one isn't likely to do.)
Regardless, I'll prescriptively say Bebop should STFU about how blackbelts should behave. Because ... well, I think it's obvious.
_________________
Blue belt, training at Gracie Humaita Austin.
Helio Gracie > Royler Gracie > Donald Park/Paulo Coelho Brandao > me.
georgetteoden.blogspot.com |
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Tbruce
3 thumbs up
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 78
Location: Florida
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cbrenner13
Joined: 06 Mar 2012
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
#13 |
Tbruce:
That article essentially sums it up. respect, learning, a way of life, passing on knowledge, and the list goes on and on. Being a blakc belt means many things but the comming message is that it is more than just what it took to get there.
Thanks for all the responses. |
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bebop
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:35 am Post subject: |
#14 |
| georgetteoden wrote: |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| Surprisingly though it makes sense... He does have a point. A person should start showing their initiative in the school with helping others around blue and purple. So if they have not showed it up until then I think its safe to say that that is a good sign they wont once a black belt. |
While I agree with what you're saying, I think the difference between Bebop's perspective and yours is-- Bebop is being prescriptive (what someone shouldn't do) and you're being descriptive (what one isn't likely to do.) |
u speak gibberish. your trying to sound smart but you don't make any sense. |
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scifigal
3 thumbs up
Joined: 11 Jun 2010
Posts: 1719
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:10 am Post subject: |
#15 |
| bebop wrote: |
| georgetteoden wrote: |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| Surprisingly though it makes sense... He does have a point. A person should start showing their initiative in the school with helping others around blue and purple. So if they have not showed it up until then I think its safe to say that that is a good sign they wont once a black belt. |
While I agree with what you're saying, I think the difference between Bebop's perspective and yours is-- Bebop is being prescriptive (what someone shouldn't do) and you're being descriptive (what one isn't likely to do.) |
u speak gibberish. your trying to sound smart but you don't make any sense. |
Actually, she makes perfect sense.
_________________
“Know yourself. Never forget where you came from, and reach back to help someone else come forward too.” — Alpha Alexander, Black Women in Sports Foundation
Check out my BJJ blog: http://jiujiubjj.com/ |
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IllustratorVir
3 thumbs up
Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 431
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
#16 |
| bebop wrote: |
| why is it that people expect so much out of black belts. if one reaches a black belt then he should be just who he is nothing more nothing less. he shouldn't all of the sudden become this vocal leader of the dojo if he never was before. thats just a sign of a pretentious chump trying to be something he is not. |
Actually, I disagree. I believe when someone acquires a black belt, there is a sense of responsibility. Anyone who has been training in Jiu Jitsu longer than a few months knows how much work, time, and effort goes into that accomplishment. The newer students will look to you with awe while your long time training partners will smile with pride knowing they were apart of such a wonderful thing. As such, I believe that a black belt does have a responsibility to at least attempt to pass on some knowledge, techniques, principles, and philosophies that have assisted him or her along the way.
To be honest, as someone progresses through the ranks I feel they should be doing this with the lower ranked students anyway. If there was a purple/brown/black belt who came in, drilled, rolled, and went home without so much as a peep about their game, their ideas, or their principles; I would be a bit confused. I believe anyone can learn anything from anyone else, and that can only happen if we share our ideas. Even if they are wrong, at least then as a team we can work to correct it. That is what it is all about, right? To come closer together and become a family outside of our personal homes.
TL:DR - Lower ranks will always be drawn to the upper ranks, as such, I feel they do have a responsibility to try to share ideas.
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georgetteoden
3 thumbs up
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 309
Location: Austin Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
#17 |
I agree, Illustrator. No one gets to black belt without an exceptional amount of effort and commitment-- not only on their own part, but the combined efforts of their teammates and instructors and probably people outside the BJJ world too. I think you're obligated to pass on your wisdom to the community.
In fact, I think even whitebelts and bluebelts have obligations to perform a role in this foodchain-- being the less-experienced cannon fodder for the upper belts to learn new techniques on is the first example I can think of. And once you're a purple, you are likely to have the skills and experience to credibly share "how to's" on a technical level as well.
_________________
Blue belt, training at Gracie Humaita Austin.
Helio Gracie > Royler Gracie > Donald Park/Paulo Coelho Brandao > me.
georgetteoden.blogspot.com |
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bebop
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
#18 |
| scifigal wrote: |
| bebop wrote: |
| georgetteoden wrote: |
| BJJMark95 wrote: |
| Surprisingly though it makes sense... He does have a point. A person should start showing their initiative in the school with helping others around blue and purple. So if they have not showed it up until then I think its safe to say that that is a good sign they wont once a black belt. |
While I agree with what you're saying, I think the difference between Bebop's perspective and yours is-- Bebop is being prescriptive (what someone shouldn't do) and you're being descriptive (what one isn't likely to do.) |
u speak gibberish. your trying to sound smart but you don't make any sense. |
Actually, she makes perfect sense. |
no it doesn't. its psychobabble jibberish. |
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bebop
3 thumbs up
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
#19 |
| IllustratorVir wrote: |
| bebop wrote: |
| why is it that people expect so much out of black belts. if one reaches a black belt then he should be just who he is nothing more nothing less. he shouldn't all of the sudden become this vocal leader of the dojo if he never was before. thats just a sign of a pretentious chump trying to be something he is not. |
Actually, I disagree. I believe when someone acquires a black belt, there is a sense of responsibility. Anyone who has been training in Jiu Jitsu longer than a few months knows how much work, time, and effort goes into that accomplishment. The newer students will look to you with awe while your long time training partners will smile with pride knowing they were apart of such a wonderful thing. As such, I believe that a black belt does have a responsibility to at least attempt to pass on some knowledge, techniques, principles, and philosophies that have assisted him or her along the way.
To be honest, as someone progresses through the ranks I feel they should be doing this with the lower ranked students anyway. If there was a purple/brown/black belt who came in, drilled, rolled, and went home without so much as a peep about their game, their ideas, or their principles; I would be a bit confused. I believe anyone can learn anything from anyone else, and that can only happen if we share our ideas. Even if they are wrong, at least then as a team we can work to correct it. That is what it is all about, right? To come closer together and become a family outside of our personal homes.
TL:DR - Lower ranks will always be drawn to the upper ranks, as such, I feel they do have a responsibility to try to share ideas. |
u are quite naive.
there is no obligation a black belt has in being a leader of the dojo.
his presence alone and rolling with the lower ranks already benefits the dojo members as it is. the black belt does not have to spoon feed anything. just simply rolling with the lower ranks will help the lower ranks immensely. |
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BJJMark95
3 thumbs up
Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 1041
Location: Calgary (Aberdeen & TEXAS)
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: |
#20 |
Man you are barking up the wrong fire hydrant.
She makes perfect sense though it may be a bit "above" your comprehension. However, as per the topic, I see both of your sides of view. I think a black belt will feel like helping out others all on his own especially being in jiu-jitsu and a black belt it will be the type of person they will be. However, do they have a RESPONSIBILITY to do so? I dont necessarily think so. Again, I like the notion that it should be requested from an upper level to help out and their help should be asked for but it should not be EXPECTED. One should not be pressured into helping out others by lower or other upper belts just like one should not be pressured to do anything. Two different things there.
_________________
"The rest of you can go to HELL! ... I am going to train jiu-jitsu in TEXAS!"
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