[SetOnKill]

Are you white belts allowed to apply leg locks?

We were at our affiliate school today for a seminar. While rolling with another white belt. This dude slapped a heel hook on me. Our Black Blet instructor does not allow white belts to do leg locks, I guess for safety reasons. Soon as I realized what he was doing I just tapped and explained we are not allowed to do these moves.

To be honest I have never been taught how to defend a leg lock or escape from them.

I know most leg locks are Illegal for white belts in comps.

What about your school, can your white belts apply leg locks while free rolling?

[slideyfoot]

It depends if you follow the IBJJF rules or not: if you do, then a straight ankle lock is fine for all levels. Personally, I'd rather white belts (or indeed some blue belts) weren't throwing any leg locks other than that on me, as I don't trust their level of control.

I've heard a few arguments in favour of regularly practicing 'dangerous' techniques. For example, some feel that it's good to know the defences even if you do follow the IBJJF, rather than only starting to practice them at brown, by which point it may be too late. Then there is the opinion that heel hooks, neck cranks and other dangerous techniques are a part of BJJ and grappling, so a well-rounded grappler should practice them (particularly if they are not interested in the IBJJF version of BJJ, or simply compete in competitions that allow those techniques). Here's what Tim Cartmell said when I asked him about neck cranks:

[jackjitsu]

White belt + heel hook = are you outta your f'in mind?!??!??

Thats my opinion.


Would you rather learn heal hooks with other well controlled brown belts, or never make it to brown belt because some spazz blew out your ACL, cost you thousands of dollars in medical bills + 9 months of recovery time... AND THEN BLOWS OUT YOUR OTHER ACL? They are often never the same either.

At age 43, I wont even consider competing no-gi, because id be in the advanced division, and simply cant risk losing an ACL at this point. My ACL's are not worth a stupid medal.


I had a black belt practice heel hooks on me once. Just grabbing them, and applying only very very gentle pressure. I was limping for the next 2 weeks and couldnt train. Some white belt trying to rip it off in a sudden fast motion, is NOT something I will allow anyone to try.

Straight ankle locks only until upper belt rank is fine with me.

[PotownAl]

We learn leg locks at white belt at my school. Knee bars, straight ankles, and toe holds are acceptable to finish responsibly during any roll. Heel hooks are also acceptable to apply, just as long as you stop prior to finishing it. Call it a gentleman's agreement. There's not a big enough margin of error to try to finish a heel hook.

[slideyfoot]

[clinzy]

My current gym only has gi classes, so heel hooks aren't really an issue, unless it's at an open mat and someone is rolling no gi and they specifically ask to spar with leglocks.

My last gym taught leglocks to everyone, and the instructor stressed the importance of control/caution, etc. No one was ever injured with a heel hook in the ~3 years that I trained there.

And Jack - you can compete no gi at USG events in the 30+ divisions. No twisting leglocks there. We understand that 30+ dudes are much more likely to not want to play with footlocks, due to that "I have a job to do on Monday" situation.

[jackjitsu]

Ahhhh thats good to know. So what below the waist locks ARE allowed in the 30+ division? (no-gi)

Straight ankle and knee bar only?

[sOz]

Shoulder locks are just as dangerous as leg locks but not frowned upon, even after what Kimura did to Helio

you would think Fadda going in and leg locking the hell out of Helios school and beating Helio himself would show him that leg locks need to be focused on much more for any serious grappler. It seems the Gracies have always frowned upon leg lockers and even in comps they used to get boo'd then the world saw Comprido become a world champion using a simple foot lock vs at the time was one of the most advanced and feared guard players in the game, Roleta.

Or just watch last years ADCC where leglocks finished more fights than chokes or armbars combined.

The myth of leg locks being the most dangerous thing ever needs to end. You just need good instructors showing the proper techniques and ways not to torque or hurt somebody and its fine.


Heel hooks should be a no-no til about purple but i see no reason why knee bars, ankle locks etc should be so frowned upon, they work and are legit techniques.

[Ricco]

[slideyfoot]

[thegent]

No heel hooks, kneebars, slicers, cranks until brown. However I'm all for educating on leglocks, illegal techniques, knee reaping etc. How else is the white belt to know that what he's doing, probably seen on youtube the day before, is dangerous ? White belts off the street are insane, always ready to try ANYTHing. Very dangerous.

Just the other day, an instructor was coaching a white belt student on the armbar, and the guy just didn't get the mechanics right, so he was overcompensating by lifting his hips and pulling down HARD on my arm. I felt it would snap anytime. He only needed to break my posture with his legs while using the same pressure to put me out for a good while.

The point is :education on techniques is NOT a bad thing. Ignorance is more dangerous than knowledge of a few off-limits techniques. Hell, even a legal technique is dangerous if the guy doesn't understand it.

[slideyfoot]

[clinzy]

[bsenka]

This is a martial art, not synchronized swimming. The things you're learning are supposed to be dangerous.

[Ricco]

[billiniraq]

Here's how I see it.

Leg and ankle locks are dangerous. Proper instruction is designed to stave off the dangers. By introducing them properly, explaining them properly, and making students aware of their danger, students will be less likely to be injured by them. Even with this belief, I do not teach them too early in training.

Leg and ankle locks, for beginners especially, become a crutch. It's easier to drop back on a leg lock then to actually work at passing the guard. This is why I don't teach them until high white belt or blue (between one and two years of training). I would rather my students have a great grasp of how to pass the guard, defending their neck and limbs and base, than to simply attempt dropping back on the leg when things get tough. Basically, I feel leg locks taught too early will retard the learning process necessary to develop strong jiu-jitsu skill.

[PotownAl]

[slideyfoot]

[relax]

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