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judokamma
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 Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: Sandbagging Post 1,234 |
 #1 |
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/some-white-belts-mundials-incredible-sandbaggers-949652/
got this over at Sherdog, but it's got some great examples of clear cut sandbagging. some of the sandbagging is pretty epic to be honest. i've seen guys at tournaments that clearly were (hopefully) just about to go from blue to purple, or purple to brown etc, but one of the guys they mention in the post has been competing in MMA for 5 years, but he's doing bjj competitions as a white belt.
that's just disingenuous, unfair, and dangerous to white belt competitors. |
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jackjitsu
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: |
#2 |
Shameful..... mma record of 11 and 0, 9 by submission and entering white belt divisions??!??!?
So unfair.... people train hard, they pay they hard earned cash, and run into a guy like this?
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GAMEDOG
Joined: 26 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: |
#3 |
what the hells the point in that??
i know people in boxing have lied about their records etc to get fights as no one will fight them with their real record.theres a point to that,still dont agree but can see why they do it...this just seems pointless,wheres the benefit for the guy??
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WisconsinKid91
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject: |
#4 |
I have never seen the point in sandbagging. I would rather lose in the second round at blue belt and know that I am competing where I need to be, than win a white belt comp knowing that I shouldn't be there.
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lstbred
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject: |
#5 |
I hate sandbaggers!  I rather get tapped a 100 times by someone whos legit (with me)rank/age/weight blah blah then deal with one ego idiot. I dont do Judo tournys anymore, not enuf participants in my rank/age/weight so I would go up against real young guy's, honestly the closest in age ever was 10yrs my younger, 35# heavier AND came in, in a raggedy white belt Gi saying to his friend "just cause you been doing it for 14 yrs on -off they think you should be belted ha ha" ya, he got 1st and beat everyone pretty good...sandbagger!
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pb barney
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 112
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: |
#6 |
If the competitor is intentionally discounting his or her rank, it is very disappointing that the sandbagger is missing one important element of martial arts: Honor.
Now from another perspective, I wonder if the instructor realizes the offender in question is sandbagging or even encourage it. Probably unlikely, but nonetheless not beyond a shadow of a doubt.
However, if a competitor is being held back by the instructor, then the competitor may not technically be guilty of sandbagging.
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treoptika333
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: |
#7 |
Met this purple belt fella at a tournament a while back, he was telling us all about how he was going to move to sacramento to go train full time. We see him again and he's wearing a white belt because he "changed schools and his coach told him too".
ಠ_ಠ
He lost his first match. Maybe it was the belt!
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wookieman
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject: |
#8 |
In my first tourney a couple months ago there was a pro mma fighter and one of his coaches in my division. They had just imported a Brazilian Black belt and started doing legit BJJ at their gym. I suppose they were both technically white belts, but the gym's website advertises the coach as having trained since 2003 and having experience in several grappling styles including BJJ. I'm not one to judge and a white belt is still a white belt, but seems a little fishy.
The tourney organizers must have known what's up because the had to face each other in the first round. I guess that at least got rid of one of them. I don't see what either of them had to gain by rolling against a bunch of guys that mostly had less than 1 year of experience.
Might I add that both of them also competed in advanced no gi. IMHO it seems if you have the experience to enter advanced no gi you should at least be asked to compete with the blues in gi (while wearning a white belt of course) just for the spirit of competition.
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bsenka
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: |
#9 |
| Is the problem is in using the belt as the division? Can a white belt just choose to compete in a higher division if he wants to? |
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Glen87
Joined: 10 Jun 2011
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:29 pm Post subject: |
#10 |
i have never heard of Sandbagging till now. As i read am i understandign correctly that sandbagging is someone who stays a particular belt rank even though their skill level exceeds what that rank actualy is solely to win competitions?
or do they lie all together about their ranka nd their school to go into a lesser division to win?
either of those seem like a stupid idea and i have no idea how it would benefit the person involved. some people must be more happy wiht false medalsnd world titles than acheiving a legitimate black belt
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bsenka
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:39 am Post subject: |
#11 |
| Glen87 wrote: |
| either of those seem like a stupid idea and i have no idea how it would benefit the person involved. some people must be more happy wiht false medalsnd world titles than acheiving a legitimate black belt |
I know, right?
If the option was binary --impressive tournament record OR belt promotion-- I know I'd choose the latter. I can't fathom why someone would deliberately choose the former. Which is why I'm wondering if the guy even has a choice to compete at a higher division if he hasn't been officially promoted yet. |
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Kintanon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:15 am Post subject: |
#12 |
| bsenka wrote: |
| Glen87 wrote: |
| either of those seem like a stupid idea and i have no idea how it would benefit the person involved. some people must be more happy wiht false medalsnd world titles than acheiving a legitimate black belt |
I know, right?
If the option was binary --impressive tournament record OR belt promotion-- I know I'd choose the latter. I can't fathom why someone would deliberately choose the former. Which is why I'm wondering if the guy even has a choice to compete at a higher division if he hasn't been officially promoted yet. |
Most tournaments won't let you compete above your official belt rank. For that reason we have had an NCAA champ wrestler and a Judo national champion in my blue belt divisions at various tournaments before. They weren't sandbagging, they just weren't allowed to compete where they really should have been competing. Both had signed up for the advanced no-gi divisions though and did quite well.
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R93
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
#13 |
| treoptika333 wrote: |
Met this purple belt fella at a tournament a while back, he was telling us all about how he was going to move to sacramento to go train full time. We see him again and he's wearing a white belt because he "changed schools and his coach told him too".
ಠ_ಠ
He lost his first match. Maybe it was the belt! |
wow he was probably over ranked, no purple belt at my school is gonna lose a game at the white belt division.
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AJPSEC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:54 am Post subject: |
#14 |
| WisconsinKid91 wrote: |
| I have never seen the point in sandbagging. I would rather lose in the second round at blue belt and know that I am competing where I need to be, than win a white belt comp knowing that I shouldn't be there. |
I agree. totally. HOWEVER...
Here's a not so hypothetical question:
As you guys may/may not know I am at a Drysdale affiliate. I've been in BJJ for probably 2yrs now give or take. I'm a 4 stripe white, and my last tournament (march '11) I cleaned house. And other than our blue belt instructor, I am the highest ranked/most experienced person at our school.
So Robert Drysdale is supposed to come out this August and put on the mandatory seminar and i can test for my blue (which I'm still like what...??) So far the estimate for the seminar is around $60-70. If they come back with the test fee is like $100 + seminar fee, and I tell them I can't afford it, should I not compete until:
1. I can fly out to Las Vegas and test for my blue
2. He comes back next year and I have the money
We currently do not have a black belt instructor. Supposed to get one, but for like the last 8 months... |
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treoptika333
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject: |
#15 |
| R93 wrote: |
wow he was probably over ranked, no purple belt at my school is gonna lose a game at the white belt division. |
Like I said, it was the belt. I bet he washed it and lost all his knowledge.
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kensei
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: |
#16 |
Do they have a NO belt division were you just walk in off the street and compete, thats the only way I could sand bag withe my submissions. I have not subbed anyone in 15 years..thats when I was doing Sambo and Judo.  |
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razor108
Joined: 10 Mar 2011
Posts: 29
Location: nyc
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: |
#17 |
I think I'm missing something here, first I have never competed
And I'm only a white belt, one stripe if that makes a difference.
As a white belt my goal is to eventually wipe the floor with all the
White belts before I get my blue belt. So I think we will all be
"sandbagging" sooner or later in order to move on. Am I wrong? |
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treoptika333
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
#18 |
Yes. You are completely wrong...
oh. Wait no you're right.
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Eric
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:45 am Post subject: |
#19 |
| jackjitsu wrote: |
Shameful..... mma record of 11 and 0, 9 by submission and entering white belt divisions??!??!?
So unfair.... people train hard, they pay they hard earned cash, and run into a guy like this? |
I hate people who sandbag at tournaments. I always grapple in the advanced division, no matter what. But for a guy like that, I would love to throw on a white belt, act like I didn't know ANY take downs, hit him by surprise with a vicious throw or take down, transition right to the submission. Usually a strangle.
I love strangles, a person can't fight you if they are unconscious.
I play fair, but in a circumstance like this, a guy who is 11-0 as a pro in MMA with 9 submissions, entering the novice division of a grappling tournament is very dishonorable, and he should know better.
Two can play that game.  |
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xfiles
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Posts: 783
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: |
#20 |
wow!!
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